Russell Powell says... Expect the unexpected from Sydney Anglicans

We always do!

...Same-sex marriage could lead to polygamy, says Jensen  
...No one is the boss of the family
...Millions wiped out by church gambles
...Sydney Anglican Archbishop faces nepotism allegations
...Phillip Jensen declares it fearlessly

...Atheists are believers who hate God, says Anglican Archbishop
   Peter Jensen
...Bishop enters battle against secular ethics classes
 ...Anglican Church leaders bewildered by Dean's outburst

How could Anglican Church leaders be bewildered by the Dean's outburst ...  have them read the Dean's... 'Devil's Father's Day' article ...and they'll realise that calling the Archbishop of Canterbury a prostitute ...pales into insignificance!

Phillip I know that I don't have male genitalia... but please don't exclude me from  your St Andrew's Cathedral's 123 men's group...the one that lifts up men's holy hands without anger or disputing ...in order to suppress the female spirit.. I can go forth and multiply through binary fusion... I don't have to go out and find men to join the group to increase my spiritual warfare capacity!



Deary me... I recall the green bile that spewed from my mouth when some men in the early eighties picked the wrong woman to pray over with evil selfish intent... May God forgive what they did in the name of Christianity!

 

President of Sydney Anglicans Together writes a letter to the smh... Jensen's view on women: how did it come to this?

The President of Anglicans Together writes...As an Anglican priest in the Sydney diocese who conducts a large number of weddings I would like to reassure readers that there are a number of parishes in Sydney, including my own, that have no intention of ever using the proposed new marriage service requiring women to submit to their husbands. The service we currently use from A Prayer Book for Australia does not ask women to obey their husbands.
Furthermore, there are still some clergy in this diocese who support the full and equal ministry of women in church and society, without qualification.
Philip Bradford Hunters Hill


Say Bill ...are you a member of Anglicans Together? Cause it sure sounds more balanced and healthy than Evangelicals Alone!

Sydney Anglican, Lionel Windsor realises that the word submission can hold negative connotations and he may have been a little naive when speaking about his wife's voluntary submission... With evangelism comes responsibility!

Now Magilla Gorilla...because Peter Jensen has converted you to Jensenism...your wife will be expected to submit. Mark Baddeley can't tell you exactly what submission looks like ... so we will have to send you to Bible school so you can learn   that the antonymns used in the real world are wrong... and those who have written and studied Jensenism are the only ones who actually know what the word submission really means ... and no ...the word submission is not an irresponsible term when applied to a broader community who are not skilled in the intricacies of Jensenism!

 

Calam that Lionel seems like a nice fella... but as he says very niave... Is he suggesting that Christian men are never abusive to women ...and never take doctrine literally? As I said Calam...I reckon that mixing in the real world, instead of always hanging out with the choir...is a good prerequisite to preaching doctrine to people who come from a variety of backgrounds, where values and terminology may differ greatly to Lionel's.

 

Yes Bill but really ...what is it about a man's psyche that makes him want his wife to  submit? ... raises himself to the status of God and relegates his wife to that of a church full of sinners?... and only protects women who believe in complementarianism, while  condoning the displacement of Sydney Anglican women who have grown up in the diocese and want to be ordained?  Lionel's opinion that "Fifty Shades of Grey" is only read by non-Christians is a huge generalisation ...because in my world, Kara Martin is the only person that I know of who has read it!

Sydney Anglicans say "Get Down" ...and buy their Southern Cross newspaper...so girls you too can submit to a geek like me.



Oh Clive...I think it's just so cool the way you tell me to "Get Down"...It's so much more 21st Century than asking me to submit!

Say Bill... do all them Sydney Anglican fellas look like the one they chose to promote their Southern Cross Magazine on their website?

Only the young ones Calam... you should see the older ones...they look like Jean Calvin... Heard one of the stories featuring is close to the bone! 

The Punch features The Rev’d Barbara Steele-Perkins, who asks Sydney Anglicans... why in a culture where women and men are equal (in Australia and England for example) is there a perceived need for bride and groom to say different things in their vows?

The Rev Barbara explains that every human being is in the image of God, who is, in God’s very being, three persons in perfect and equal submission to each other. She asks...then why is‘Subordination’used... when it

is an entirely different matter and entirely out of place; nowhere (unless it is being misinterpreted) does the Bible suggest that men and women are anything but equal in the sight of God and each other.

Bill I thought that Rev lady came from the UK, hung around churches all her life, and had been a clergy wife, as well as a Rev...then how come Bill... she's acting so surprised about experiencing the ramphant misogyny of Sydney Anglicans... I mean Bill...she must have come across the Moore College trained John Richardson, Wallace Benn and Chris Sugden...in her time in the UK?

She's probably one of those extremists who refused to remain barefoot and pregnant... or tell other women to do the same!

UK Huffington Post is running a poll on Peter Jensen's new 'female submission' vow

You know Reg... I reckon they should be running a poll on whether Sydney Anglicans are stupid ... or just stark raving mad!

Sydney Anglicans call in UK expert to teach Moore College students about the birds and the bees

Christopher Ash has flown from the UK to speak to Sydney Anglicans about "God, Sex and Marriage". He'll be addressing questions such as "What's the point of marriage?" and even "What's the point of sex?" There will even be an opportunity for Sydney Anglicans to ask Christopher  questions .



Snow White...marriage is about you submitting to me. and fulfilling my every whim... remember I'm never wrong and can never be corrected... if you promise to submit to me, well then, I will protect you from harm, and fight all your battles for you... sex is about you producing heirs, and training my daughters to never be allowed to experience equality... I want a lot of children so that I present as manly...just incase people think that I'm sexually conflicted.


 

Snow ... don't you think it's time to tell Sydney Anglicans that you've learnt to stick up for yourself ...and that not every prince is as charming as God?  


And no mention of Sydney Anglican's new 'Submission Vow' on the Anglican Mainstream's website

 

 

 

 

Say Ennis...whose backside is that?

 

It's hard to say Jake... it looks like David Ould's ...but he evangelises at "Standfirm - Faith Among the Ruins"- (2,855 posts to date ...and counting)  ...so it must be Chris Sugden's... you'd have to get a look at the head to work out if it's the Ugley Vicar

 

 

 

 

 

Attorney - General's office says... the NATIONAL church body is the relevant authority in relation to the Marriage Act.

 

I told those Sydney Anglicans that submission was a grey area...I mean does the bride submit the way Sydney Anglicans do ...or does she submit the way the National Church does?

Anglican marriages conducted in Sydney may be illegal in the eyes of the law, according to the federal Attorney-General.

The head of the Anglican Church in Australia has also suggested the changes made to the marriage vow by the Sydney diocese may be in question under canon law, and may have to be thrashed out in a national church tribunal.

In a written statement sent to the Herald, the primate's office said of the new 'submit vow'...while there were provisions under church law for a bishop of a diocese to authorise deviations from the existing wedding service while waiting for a canon, the changes must not contravene existing doctrine for the church to recognise the ceremony as sufficient, as it applies to the Marriage Act.

Whether the substitution of the word ''obey'' with ''submit'' in the new service was, in fact, a departure from doctrine would be something a church court would have to decide.
''Submit'' has never been used in any version of the marriage vow since the Book of Common Prayer came into existence in 1662.
''The questions that have been raised about the legality of the proposed new service in Sydney are important,'' the statement said.
''I think they could only be settled definitively by a formal legal process, probably involving the Appellate Tribunal of the national church.''
The Bishop of South Sydney, Robert Forsyth, the chairman of the liturgical panel that changed the service, yesterday described the uncertain legality over the vow as a ''beat-up issue''.
However, the Office of the Primate, Archbishop Phillip Aspinall, said under the church's constitution, the normal process would be for the diocese to seek a canon from the national church's General Synod.
This appears to be backed by the Attorney-General's office, which confirmed yesterday

''Under the Marriage Act, ministers of religion may use any form and ceremony recognised as sufficient for the purpose by their religious organisation, in this case the Anglican Church of Australia.''

Hey Barney... I can't wait until Sydney Anglicans return the human race to the ice-age...that'll prove the Theory of Evolution is a fallacy .
Yeah Merv... We need some comedians... I wonder if  hell will freeze over when they arrive?
 

Peter Jensen says men and women are different and that's why women have to sumbit

You Know Bill...I'm going to let Dorothy deal with this one!

Ennis...I think it's more a case of Sydney Anglicans being different from the rest of the human race...you know Sydney Anglicans are from Mars and the rest of us are from Venus

Sydney Anglican Lionel Windsor speaks about how his wife practices 'voluntary submission' in his marriage.

Yes I found voluntary submission works well when dealing with apes... and every young women should know how to protect herself by submitting voluntarily ... because  if  she is forced to submit then she may look like this...

Lionel Windsor, who opposes 'mutual submission ' between genders explains that his wife voluntarily submits to him because the Bible says (Ephesians 5:22-6:9) that he's not allowed to submit...not even involuntarily! He explains how women are like childen and slaves and are never allowed to gain their independence. That is why single women have trouble being Christian women in the Sydney Diocese...because sometimes it's hard to find a man to voluntarily submit to...and that could be where the Silverback comes in!
Hey Ennis... I remember the blog that featured Lionel's wife's story on voluntary submission. The blog was a satirical blog used to point out the damaging effect this kind of theology could have on young UK women and men. If Lionel removed the post then he did the world a service.

Oh I remember now... it was the same time that Peter Jensen was over in the UK and Ireland fuelling anti-gay sentiment...and causing extreme hostility throughout the world...before he lost the diocese's money!

An expert on the Anglican Church constitution, said Sydney Anglican changes to the marriage vows not only carry ''unpleasant connotations'' but could also be illegal.

DOUBT has been cast over the legality of the Sydney Anglican Diocese's changes to the marriage vow after an expert in church law said he did not believe the new wedding service complied with federal laws.

So Ennis... if I promise not to submit to you, then will our marriage be legal?

Damn... no more bondage sessions then Ennis?

Wow! A single Sydney Anglican woman gets to have her say on The Briefing website... even if she has to do it anonymously for fear of retributon within the circles she mixes

The brave anonymous woman says...

Single Woman on 27 August, 2012 at 11:01 pm said:

I know I’m breaking the comment policy here by not using my real full name, but I hope you still publish my comment, because there is a reason for anonymity.
The issue of the status of women in the church and in relationships is a huge and potentially hurtful issue. I’m normally a pretty self-assured woman, but commenting here, where people could see my real name – people who know me could see me saying something they think is wrong or even heretical – is frankly terrifying.
I don’t think that I am meant to be lesser than men simply because of my gender. I know those who promote submission say that isn’t what they preach, but that’s how it works in practice. That’s how it has always felt to me – that no matter my capabilities, I’m never to be ‘in charge’ because I have the wrong genitalia. Men are always the leader, women always submit. Sorry, but I don’t think God sees me as less capable just because I’m female.
I’d also remind you that the second party in each of the three relationships listed was considered property of the male of the household when this was written. Paul elevated women, children, and slaves to a height that was radical for that society. Pushing wifely submission now, 2000 years on, seems like a regression, whereas Paul’s instructions were – at the time – hugely progressive.
I’ve already said a lot (and given I’m not following your rules I’m unsure you’ll even publish this) but there’s one more thing I’d like to mention. This article and all the discussion on submission and roles always ignores singles. We’re the invisible members of the church, and many of us are getting really frustrated and tired of it. We’re subtly told we’re inferior or incomplete because we aren’t married. Women like me get the subtle message (and for some people, they’re told it outright) that we’re too assertive, too feminist, not the good submissive Christian type. You may not like to hear it, but there are those of us who are in the church but don’t fit the Christian happy families stereotype. And many feel hurt and discouraged and ignored because we don’t see the church acknowledging us. Instead, we see the church getting narrower and narrower in the acceptable ways to be a good Christian. I worry this is pushing people away – I worry it will push me away from the institutional church.
I’ve rambled too long and too far from the original post, but I hope you do read and consider my concerns, whether you agree with them or not.

Say Bill ...can people remain anonymous when putting forward their point of view at the Sydney Synod ?

No Calam... the clerics in the gallery want to know who they can jeer at, and freeze out of the Sydney diocese... anyway Calam that lady won't be taken seriously because she didn't use Biblical references to punctuate every sentence ...Sydney Anglicans like Mark Thompson and Phillip Jensen, won't be able to understand a word she is saying!

What is essential for preaching to Sydney Anglican men?

A penis that rises in the presence of women!
 

Say Bill... so does a Sydney Anglican preacher use his penis to preach His Sunday sermons? 

I think so Calam... they are evangelicals ... and evangelicals are always preaching about sex.

Journalist Julia Baird, a former member of Sydney Anglican Synod and the Movement for the Ordination of Women ... gets up Sydney Anglican misogynists!

 

 

Now Missy you know if you convert to Sydney Anglicanism, then you can't ride with me and the boys anymore!

What's Calam on about...we're boys and we're not allowed to ride with the Sydney Anglicans ... doesn't she know it's an exclusive club for homophobes and misogynists!

MOWatch dedicates a new book to Patricia Brennan...and it's called..."Preachers, Prophets & Heretics: Anglican Women's Ministry"

Looking forward to reading it from afar

Preachers, Prophets & Heretics: Anglican Women's Ministry is edited by Elaine Lindsay and Janet Scarfe (UNSW Press, 2012), and has been published to mark the 20th anniversary in 2012 of the ordination of women as priests in the Anglican Church in Australia. In it, key supporters of women's ordination and astute observers analyse and reflect on the controversy, its context and some of its consequences from their particular stand-points. The eighteen contributors include lawyer Keith Mason, Bishops Keith Rayner and Peter Carnley, MOW president Janet Scarfe, campaigner Muriel Porter, priests Elizabeth Smith and Peta Sherlock, intercessor Janet Nelson, academic Heather Thomson, and historians Peter Sherlock, David Hilliard and Anne O'Brien. The span is far wider than the dioceses where 'it' happened. Considerable attention is given to the Diocese of Sydney.

The Anglican Church League says...Sydney Anglicans are not sexist...it's just that Sydney Anglican theology is based upon the authentic Biblical concept of 'Protect and Submit' instead of 'Unconditional Love'.

 

The Sydney Anglican Church League says that Sydney Anglicans are not sexist, and that the ABC ran with it's story about submissive Anglican wives because it was hard up for stories! And isn't that typical of  Sydney Anglicans to downplay stories that relate to the denigration of women? 

No... Sydney Anglicans are just misunderstood ... and all they are really trying to do is mirror the Sydney Anglican Diocese's relationship with a God. The fear-based relationship that says God will love and protect you as long as you submit to Him.

This concept when applied to marriage, transforms itself into a relationship of inequalities, where  the role of a male is to protect His defenseless wife (just like God protects His defenseless Sydney Anglican men ) ...just as long as His wife remains submissive to His thoughts and actions, regardless of the integrity attached to these... and this is because Sydney Anglican Men  incarnate God and women don't! 

So does the Sydney Anglican wife surrender herself totally and adopt the personal and spiritual truth of her husband... regardless of His intellectual and emotional capacity ...and all because he mimics God in the relationship?

If she marries a man who has Aspergers Syndrome ...then does she see the world as black and white as he does?

If she marries a man who suffers from depression and anxiety, then does she only ever see and experience a world of darkness that is based on fear?

If she marries a gay man who is repressing his sexuality to be accepted by Sydney Anglicans, then does she ever experience real passion and romantic love, and does she have to remain in an unfulfilling relationship?

If her spouse has an intellectual delay, then does she have to drop her IQ and go on a disability allowance too ... all because he has to lead when dancing?

And if her spouse dies ...does she have to rely on the charity of others... because she no longer has the skills to earn a living and feed herself and her family?

If only Sydney Anglicans had based their theology on God's unconditional love, then the culture of the diocese would have be more loving and inclusive, and women and men would have been  created compatible within the church and marriage, without the need for regulatory behaviours to be placed upon people.  It seems like Sydney Anglicans have learnt nothing from history, and still rely on the submission of women to moderate their men's behaviour. If you are not convinced, then just mention the name Muriel Porter in Sydney circles, and watch the men gnash their teeth and growl with displeasure; or reflect back to the 2008 Sydney Synod where the male clergy gave Narelle Jarrett a standing ovation for declaring herself unsuitable for ordination as a single woman, because she didn't have a penis. 

Sydney Anglicans have developed a flawed kind of 'separationist theology' and  have trumpheted it as Biblically authentic because it parallels the oppressive treatment of  women as described in Biblical times ...the type of unjust stereotypical behaviours that Jesus opposed.

Separationist theologies produce separationist societies, and from them come separationist pathologies. Pathologies like the ones associated with the deaths of  these women, and the attitudes of those who judged them as deserving of their fate.  The "she made me do it" mentality, which absolves violent men from taking responsibility for their violent actions against women.  I'm sure Sydney Anglicans would much rather Samantha's story.

 

Calam... what's with the picture... don't you know anything? Sydney Anglicans are not evolutionists...they didn't come from apes!

Really Bill... Is that why that nice Mr Ould got so angry with Fr David Heron, when he implied that Sydney women like Mr Ould's wife, were behaving like trained gorillas. Bill...you know how Phillip Jensen created the MTS as a prerequisite to ministry....well I reckon mixing in the real world is a prerequisite to preaching! 

 

Yes Calam... Fr David Heron's humour made the point ...but missed the mark a fraction...he really  should have said that Sydney Anglican women are trained to behave like Martha who was prepared to reinforce the societial inequalities that Jesus opposed.

Well Calam and Bill... I knew them Sydney Anglicans never came from apes...I reckon that Mars launch will find their ancestors! Fancy calling a Sydney Anglican woman's behaviour stupid or like that of a trained gorilla... it is offensive to stupid people and gorillas!

Sydney Anglican women no longer promise to obey...they now vow to submit

I wonder if the church feels like this when it submits to God?

 

Sydney Anglican women will be promising to submit to their husbands under a new marriage vow  written by the diocese's liturgical panel, which has the imprimatur of the Archbishop, Peter Jensen.
Kevin Giles, a New Testament scholar in Melbourne, says... Jesus does not once mention the subordination of woman and says much in contradiction to this. Paul's comments over the subordination of women fit into the patriarchal culture of the day and are not the biblical ideal. The truth is that happy marriages today are fully equal, and unhappy marriages are ones where one or the other party is controlling.
Muriel Porter, a Melbourne academic and laywoman who writes on Anglican Church issues, said... submit was a more derogatory word than obey and had connotations of slavery. ''Frankly I'm horrified,'' she said. ''It is a very dangerous concept, especially in terms of society's propensity for domestic violence.''

Missy...Sydney Anglicans are a progressive group who don't think wives have to obey by carrying out the demands placed upon them by their husbands... That's because that might mean a woman may still retain some indepenent thought and spirit... No Missy...Sydney Anglicans want women to surrender themselves to the will and authority of a man, thus removing their identiry completely.


Now Missy when you marry me ... remember that sound Sydney Anglican theology...The male always leads, even if he's not necessarily the best dancer ... or knows how to dance at all!

It might sound like Peace talks.... but could you really trust a Sydney Anglican to put down the Biblical weaponary?

Mark Thompson, ex-president of the Anglican Church League posts an article on The Anglican Church League's and The Briefing's website calling for a way of avoiding an evangelical war. An extract chosen for The Briefing's website reads like this... Recognise that those who disagree with you on this particular theological point are people for whom Christ died. They are inestimably precious in his sight. They must not be regarded or treated as mere theological canon fodder. Even when you are convinced they are seriously in error they must be treated with respect and gentleness. 

Mark's in serious trouble Bill...He's gone soft! Any Sydney Calvinist knows that the way the West was won, was by waging war against those who were different by ultimately driving them off their land.


I wouldn't worry too much Calam...I noticed that Phil Ashey over at The Anglican Church League, is displaying evangelical solidarity with his article... Beware of Anglicans Baring Gifts . As he said Calam...it's not the intolerance that evangelicals display towards LGBT people ...but the lack of discrimination and disgusting inclusiveness of liberals, that has caused the Anglican Communion crisis . But Calam...all is not lost because Phil ain't ever going to be involved in any form of reconcilation with them liberals, as reflected in his quote about them... "This is like an arsonist’s victim saying ‘What is surprising and heartening is that we are in conversation with the arsonist, and that even though our house has burned down the conversation has been a great learning experience for all of us.’


Quick Martha...collect all those Bible passages so we can attack those heretics...you know all those homosexual and non-complementarian advocates!

Phillip Jensen gives an example of an oxymoron...Apolegitic Evangelism

 

Bill ... does Phillip Jensen mean that evangelicals never have to say they're sorry because they're always right?

I reckon so Calam...I've got a couple of oxymorons for you ...
arrogant Christians...humble Sydney Anglicans...spend thrift Calvinists... submissive liberation of women... Sydney Anglicans care for those with same sex attraction  

Say Ennis... do you reckon Phillip Jensen's quote is an oxymoron..." Evangelism doesn’t simply speak the truth, it also changes lives and societies; from worse to better."

Only if "ignorant evangelical" is an oxymoron...and the words are not synonyms!

Sydney Anglicans hold their LCM mini 'anti-gay conference' at a non-denominational church which advertises the Sydney Anglican website and Matthias Media ...and uses the denominational Anglican Church in Petersham as its worship venue!

A group called the Fellowship for Evangelism in the Visual Arts (FEVA) is hosting Liberty Christian Ministries Inc's 'same- sex, pseudo mental health/Biblical' mini-conference. The conference is being run by two Sydney Anglicans, eventhough LCMI is registered as non-denominatinal. FEVA is advertised as a non-denominational group who worship every Sunday night at 6.30 pm at All Saints Anglican Church in Petersham. This non-denominational group only advertises Sydney Anglicans and Matthias Media, as being suitable denominational resources, eventhough it works with 12 denominations. FEVA developed Outreach Media in 2007, a non-denominational Christian organisation that exists to "promote Jesus". The most significant undertaking of Outreach Media to date is the work of Outreach Posters, where FEVA partners with nearly 120 churches from over 12 denominational groups around Australia to produce and deliver thought provoking Christian posters on a monthly basis. Interestingly enough Outreach Posters advertise Sydney Anglican, Phillip Jensen's Two Ways to Live on its website.

So come along and join a non-denominational group of artists who advertise Sydney Anglican and Matthias Media resources, worship on Anglican property and fulfil  their Ministry Training Scheme (MTS) cadetship as a member of FEVA ....by listening to two Sydney Anglicans (one a Moore College lecturer) speak on behalf of a non-denominational organisation like LCMI on how to respond to SSA as Sydney Anglicans do! Oh and by the way come along to FEVA's Petersham's Evening Church and hear Haydn Sennitt and David Peterson speak about SSA...at a time when FEVA doesn't hold its hold its church service and Bible study! ...And isn't it any wonder the numbers in the Anglican Church are dropping ... Peter Jensen's mission must have been  about encouraging 10% of the Sydney Anglican population to become private evangelical entreprueners !

Will Anglican Mainstream and Sydney Anglicans take a leaf out of Cameroon's Book and celebrate 'Gay Hate Day"?

 

 

Citizens of the central African nation of Cameroon celebrated their first national ‘Gay Hate Day’ on Tuesday.The negative parody of gay pride parades was organised by the Rassemblement de la Jeunesse Camerounaise association (Cameroonian Youth Rally – RJC) and was held in the capital, Yaoundé, despite outcries from many human rights leaders across Africa.

In a statement issued by the RJC, an organisation that proudly boasts of hatred for homosexuality, it said that the aim of the parade was to glorify homophobia and vow to make it an annual event.

Ennis...do you think Chris Sugden might organise a 'Gay Hate Day'? I mean he's tried the 'Gay Leper Conference' and the 'Not Gay, Post- Gay, Ex-Gay' Bus campaign ... so this campaign might be a real goer for him. He might be able to organise protesters to partake in a fried chicken 'eat-in' at the same time!

Yeah Jake ... and maybe those two Sydney Anglicans who run Liberty Christian Ministries Inc might be able to organise a "Gay Hate Day" to coincide with the launch of their anti- gay curriculum for schools.